Hello, and welcome to Faith is Hope,
I’m Dave. Today we’re going to do something a little different. I have Bob and Jeremy with me and we’re going to have a little round table talk time. So Bob, why don’t you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are?
Bob: My name is Bob Wernicke, I’m an insurance broker in Scottsdale Arizona. I met Dave through the Near-death Experience Research Foundation or five years ago when he had his experience and I helped him record that experience. We have a wonderful relationship with Dave. They admire him very much.
Dave: Okay. And Jeremy, why don’t you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about who you are.
Jeremy: You know. That’s awesome. It’s it’s Jeremy. I, I am a Canuck. I am from the Great White North. It is actually white up here and cold, so I can officially see that. But anyways, as a Canadian, I’ve always had the dream to be an American. I’ve had the American dream, and I’ve got two businesses in the US. I’m in the software space, and also have a healthcare company, and I was introduced to Dave, through Bob, and I was introduced to Bob through another business partner of mine down in Arizona and it’s been just such a blessing being connected to both of you and really having…
Dave: Oh absolutely.
Jeremy: what I feel is like a kingdom brotherhood.
Dave: Okay. In my last podcast time, I asked a question. Starts off with people have stopped paying attention. They don’t care.
Bob: It.
Dave: And that’s the saddest thing. So, how can I help you with just one more year? So what do you think? People are looking for from the pulpit, not just the church pulpit, but every pulpit, the ones that the politicians stand behind, the ones that are media. Sit at that educators use. What are people wanting to hear? Bob.
Bob: Well, Dave I think people are wanting to hear the truth.
Jeremy: If?
Bob: They want to hear the unvarnished bottom line, truth, not the political truth, not the business angle truth, but the real truth. And they want, I think they also want to hear inspiration. They want to be inspired to do the right thing to do, what they should be doing to improve their lives, and to live a life. That is God, centered and productive. Use all of our talents to the best of our ability. But mainly they want truth and inspiration.
Jeremy: Yeah I agree. I agree Bob.
Dave: Jeremy.
Jeremy: I think you know, deep down people do want the truth, you know, we live in a world where there are so many lies and it’s it’s so hard to get the truth, you know, to get to the bottom line. But I also do believe that a lot of people out there, want to be told what it is, that makes them feel good. And then we’ve got a lot of people that are tiptoeing around the truth, right? Being very careful and very edited on, or I should say, filtered on what it is that they’re saying because they don’t want to get canceled, right? And so this is, this is the time in our life, I truly believe this is. This is probably one of the greatest times that we’ve ever lived through in order to stand up and stand for the truth. And this is why I love what you know you’re doing Dave, with faith. This hope…
Bob: Here. I would add,…
Jeremy: because this is all about committed to telling the truth and sharing the truth.
Dave: Well, I appreciate that. Sure.
Bob: I would, can I add one other thing? there a couple of years ago over came out with a very popular phrase that a lot of people accepted and she said There’s my truth and there’s your truth. Your truth may not be my truth. Well, that’s wrong because truth is truth. It’s always truth. There’s no you’re with if it’s your truth that it’s your opinion but not your truth. So truth is truth.
Jeremy: And interest.
Dave: There’s only one truth. That’s God’s truth. That’s it. One truth, God’s truth. Everybody else has their opinion of the truth,…
Bob: Well said Well said. Yes.
Dave: but there’s only one true.
Jeremy: Amen.
Dave: But but I think people have a lot of fear about the truth because truth is not always, like I said, rainbows and unicorns. It’s not always warm and fuzzy. Sometimes it’s cold and slaps, you right? Upside the head just your attention but it’s still the truth. The.
Jeremy: That’s right.
Bob: That is true. Okay Dave. Dave.
Dave: I know it’s that sounds, it sounds funny but that’s, but that’s the truth.
Bob: No that is the truth. That’s the truth. Dave, how do we know that Satan is real is Satan really real? Is he here on this earth?
Dave: Are you meaning in a physical form? Then I would say no. In a spiritual influential form. Absolutely. Satan is.
Bob: Of spiritual is more important than physical.
Dave: Satan is chaos, confusion death, destruction lies, deceit anger, hatred, and perversions There are a few more adjectives that I can use, but they won’t make it past the sensors. So yes,…
Jeremy: and,
Dave: Satan’s influences. Here it is. All around us. If someone steals from you, that’s Satan’s influence. If someone calls you a name that Satan’s influence, Jeremy, you said something interesting that people are afraid to be canceled. And this just came into my mind.
Dave: You know, the only canceling, I’m afraid of is the one that God’s gonna cancel my ticket to heaven.
Bob: You.
Jeremy: Well.
Dave: That’s the only cancel I’m afraid of.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Dave: And since I have accepted Christ, he’s not going to punch that ticket. That’s that’s so I don’t…
Bob: well said,
Dave: what I don’t worry about being canceled. Okay, cancel me here on Earth. That’s fine. Okay, no problem. Good to go because I know my ticket hasn’t been canceled going to heaven.
Dave: So I can live with that. That’s cool. I’m good.
Bob: So, you’re saying eternity,…
Dave: Okay.
Bob: Dave is more important than the next. Year or two or ten? Eternity is a little bit longer.
Dave: Well, I can always find. I can always find another job but tell me, can you find another heaven?
Bob: I don’t think so.
Jeremy: oh,
Bob: I don’t think so.
Dave: Oh, I don’t think so. God made only one.
Bob: Yeah, I haven’t looked but I have, I don’t think that’s a possibility.
Dave: Yeah.
Jeremy: You know, that’s actually an interesting question Bob because, you know, when I was younger, you know, I went to I went to a private Christian school and, you know, I always I always heard that, you know, that the world is. This is, this is this is a very spiritual world but until I grew up and became an adult and started going through the waves and, you know, the climbing and the falling and you know the challenges of life that I do not truly start to experience that,…
Bob: Here.
Jeremy: you know, there’s a Scripture in the Bible Ephesians 6:12 and I’m reading from the New Living Translation. It says for we are not fighting against flesh and blood enemies,…
Dave: If?
Jeremy: but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world against mighty powers in this dark world and…
Bob: Mmm.
Jeremy: against evil spirits, and the heavenly places. And the biggest kicker for me out of that is Against evil rulers and authorities. These are strong words of the unseen world. So, like Dave was saying,…
Bob: If?
Jeremy: No, Satan’s, not here physically, we don’t see him walking around in the grocery store. We don’t see him walking around and, and, you know, Home Depot, but he’s there. In the unseen world. And man, I’m telling goosebumps reading that Scripture because when you start to really understand what’s going on in this world, that is exactly what’s happening.
Bob: The evidence is all around us.
Dave: but remember, don’t forget, he will be here in the physical form that is coming. That was told to us, by John, in Revelation that he will be here in physical form. We don’t know what that physical form is, but he will be here.
Jeremy: Well, my question.
Bob: Something to ponder.
Jeremy: Yes, absolutely.
Bob: Go ahead.
Dave: Here.
Jeremy: Absolutely. Well, my question to you guys is is one that you know As as somebody that grew up in and around Christian circles and you know, like I said in, in a private Christian school, I’ve heard this saying a lot and you know, and I still, you know, I still try to figure out the white. Like, why do people say it that way? But my question is to you. Why? Why do people say things like this, you know? Oh, I’m so in love with Jesus. I’m so in love with Jesus. Like what? What is that?
Bob: Good question, I think.
Dave: um, Yeah.
Bob: Go ahead.
Dave: Go ahead, Bob.
Bob: It seems to me that when people say that they may be trying to justify. Their faith. Their religion Christ said, You will know them by their fruits not by their words. So I…
Jeremy: Mmm.
Bob: I think I always look at people for what they, what they do, what are their fruits. So what you talk is cheap, I can say anything in the world but what do I do? How do I express it in action? I think quite that a good had good insight, you will know them by their fruits.
Jeremy: So is it kind of like Bob? Like, are some people saying it like that in order to be overdramatic or try to make themselves feel better about their faith or, even try to put themselves up on a bit of a pedestal? And in terms of where you are, because, I mean, that’s something that I’ve just, I’ve never run around saying things like that.
Bob: Yeah, I think you may be that you may be on the something but hard to hard to understand. What is in people’s minds when they say something? But it sounds like they’re trying to justify themselves.
Jeremy: Mmm.
Bob: But what are their fruits would you do the bottom line is, What are their fruits?
Jeremy: Yes, I agree.
Bob: They help people are they loving people? Are they building up? Society are they building up their friends and neighbors and business? So that’s my bottom line. Dave.
Dave: Well, for me. It kind of breaks down into two parts. One, I think that people are so excited. About. The opportunity of being born again. And that great gift that we are all able to receive. If we just accepted that, they use the word love because they don’t know any word better. and, So, they’re saying that I love Jesus. Well, Jesus told us that first commandment is to love the Lord. Thy God with all thy heart, mind body and soul.
Dave: And that the second commandment is to love thy neighbor as you do yourself. So Jesus never said anything about loving him or worshiping him. As a matter of fact, he said, Don’t worship me,…
Jeremy: Hmm.
Dave: We see. But what I love about Jesus is that He was willing to Lay down his life. He was willing to die, for me, He shed His blood for me on that cross and for all of us for our sins so that we don’t have to die.
Jeremy: Mmm.
Dave: That eternal death. See, that’s what I love. I love the gift that he gave me because he said that there’s no greater love than to lay down your life for another. Now, I know some say, stranger or some say brother, but see I use the word another because that Kind of wraps everybody up into that, that same category of.
Dave: Someone who is willing to lay down their life for you, whether you’re a brother or a stranger. Okay, so yeah, I love what Christ did for me and because of what He did for me, I’m able to talk to my Father in heaven. And I am able to express my love to my Father in heaven because I have to do it through Christ because no one comes to the Father, except by this so, I love what he did. And I love him for it because he didn’t have to. I didn’t deserve it, I haven’t earned it. But he still did it for me. Anyway, he did it for all of us. so I think we should love what he did love him for what he did, but at the same time, to really love God,…
Jeremy: and,
Dave: the Father Because if you want to honor somebody,
Dave: Then honor them with what they ask you to do with that gift. If someone gives you a car they’re actually and say Hey take care of this car and you want to honor them. You take care of the car. You don’t go out get drunk and…
Bob: If?
Dave: wrap it around telephone pole, that’s not honoring them. Now, Bob might call you Bob might call you to thank you for honoring me but
Bob: So, if
Dave: That’s, that’s…
Bob: So have laying down your life for another is,…
Dave: what we need to do.
Bob: the pinnacle of how to express Christ’s love in this world. Then helping anybody in anything that they need is doing the same, only on a lesser level, but it’s what we’re commanded to do. Help one another. Would that be accurate
Jeremy: Well.
Dave: When? yeah, I mean when you give of yourself, Without any regard of anything coming back, no return, no recompense, no, nothing, just I give and I don’t want anything in return. Okay, that’s the ultimate. Christ gave his life.
Bob: Nothing. Yep.
Dave: And what did He want in return?
Jeremy: That’s incredible. That’s an incredible point, dude. Because you, you know, you, you were saying this earlier,…
Dave: Okay, he said
Jeremy: you know, before we, before we started this before, we started this recording that, you know, there’s a big difference between love that’s conditional. It’s coming with strings attached but then there’s, you know, there’s this beautiful real. True. Love the unconditional, love that comes from our Father up above.
Dave: Yeah. I mean his love is perfect. There are no strings, no conditions. No nothing, it’s perfect. When you receive it you receive it all, okay? He doesn’t say. You have to love me and I’ll give you this. If you want some ice cream, you got to tell me. You got that. I love you. No, he just says, I love you. Even when you make a mistake. I love you. You just He doesn’t say, I’m gonna love you if you’re good, I’m gonna love you. When you’re And listening is I’m gonna love you even when you’re sinning. I’m gonna love you when you turn away and walk away and I’m going to love you even more. When I can hold you back in my arms again because you’re back home. Okay, we we don’t understand.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Dave: We have no concept of perfect. We understand good. We’ve got great down. Amazing is pretty cool, but we do not understand perfect. Because we don’t have that concept of perfect. Okay, but God’s love is perfect.
Dave: Our love. For most. Spell it lust. Not L-o-v-e.
Jeremy: ah,
Bob: Good point. So Dave is there anybody of all of the people on this earth?
Dave: Okay.
Bob: Is there, anybody? Anybody that God does not love
Dave: No.
Bob: That’s, that’s my opinion, too. I think you said it.
Jeremy: Because God is love.
Dave: No.
Bob: God is love.
Dave: Okay. God said that we’re going to create man in our image. Okay, in in got in God’s image and I talked about this before. So if we’re created in God’s image, What color is God?
Bob: Yes. The answer is yes.
Dave: Okay. Right. Well, see God is love. See, we’re created in the image of love. God is compassion, understanding forgiveness salvation. We, that’s what we are created in the image of our body. Nothing more. They’re holding. What God created.
Bob: You, you breaking updated to repeat?
Dave: Right. Okay. So
Bob: Repeat that again.
Dave: Sorry, we’re created in the image of God, okay? The image of love. And forgiveness and salvation and mercy and grace. We’re not created. Our bodies are not what God created. What God created is inside of our bodies. Our bodies are like a Tupperware bowl. Are you gonna save the Tupperware bowl? Are you going to save what’s inside of it?
Jeremy: I love it.
Dave: Sorry, had to go there.
Bob: If? The good analogy.
Dave: Okay. Look So,…
Bob: It’s a great analogy.
Dave: so Does God love all of us? Yes, because we were all created in His image.
Jeremy: Amen.
Dave: We are all His children Now. That doesn’t mean that all of us have come to Him through Christ, but He’s still giving all of us the opportunity to do that. Right now, we are separated from Christ are from God. The Other because of sin, but when you accept Christ, then those sins are forgiven. They are no more and you are home. You’re welcomed home.
Bob: Mmm.
Dave: Okay, like the prodigal son. So, when you sit,…
Bob: So how do we, how do we do that? How do we…
Dave: How do we do, what?
Bob: how do we give ourselves to Christ? How do we give? How do we accept God’s love?
Dave: Except Christ. It isn’t something fancy, isn’t it? It has to come from your heart and your heart will know what to say. Because God speaks to our hearts. I mean if you’re waiting to hear something from God and you’re using your ears, I got news for you to get the world turned up so loud.
Jeremy: Hahaha.
Dave: You never hear God even if you standing right in front of you,…
Bob: It.
Dave: Okay God speaks to our hearts, not our ears.
Dave: That’s how you know, when something’s right or something’s wrong. okay, you talked about Bob you talked before
Dave: You. Didn’t feel right. Then it’s wrong, that’s Satan. because, God. Has never made a mistake. And he’s never gotten it wrong. We do we make mistakes, we get it wrong. We do dumb things, but God has never made a mistake and He’s never gotten it wrong. God has a sense of humor.
Bob: So he’s never made a mistake with a person.
Dave: He created me if I was twins, that would be cool. Right.
Dave: but, The influences of the world. Have taken that person. And turn them away from God.
Jeremy: Attorney.
Dave: so that They are not what God created. They are what the influence of Satan has done.
Jeremy: Turning them away with lies.
Dave: Has made. Yes.
Jeremy: Yeah. And when you,…
Bob: Hmm.
Dave: Absolutely. That’s…
Jeremy: when you hear,
Dave: then that’s Satan’s number one tool lines and deceit.
Jeremy: Exactly. When you hear people coming to Christ, it’s because they have turned this corner of. I’m tired of the lies. I’m tired of being told. The things that are not true and they just want the truth. And and…
Dave: Yeah.
Jeremy: Jesus is the truth. God is the truth.
Dave: Absolutely. Absolutely,…
Jeremy: And truth is good.
Dave: there is no doubt. Yeah.
Dave: I mean, look at. Look at it like this, okay. Everything that we’re being told and…
Bob: If?
Dave: given from the earth from the world, okay? Our governments and our media and our politicians and it’s kind of like having vanilla ice cream, okay? It’s there. It’s me. But you want the truth, you’re gonna add some chocolate search and sprinkles a little whipped cream cherry on top. Then you got the truth.
Jeremy: Hmm, that sounds really good Dave.
Jeremy: I love ice cream by the way. I love ice cream by the way. Just FYI.
Bob: Yeah. My problem,…
Dave: Well yeah.
Bob: my problem is, I didn’t I never met a calorie. I didn’t like
Jeremy: Hahaha. So true.
Dave: Yeah.
Dave: Yeah but now God is truth. Okay, there’s nothing else. God is truth and it’s the only God’s truth that matters. Okay. It’s like I can’t I can tell you the truth if I’m telling you what the Bible says, then I’m telling you the truth if I change it or twist the Bible, then I’m not telling you the truth I’m telling you my version of the truth which is my opinion. and, My opinion doesn’t make it true.
Jeremy: Right.
Dave: It just makes it mine. But if I lie to you, then that makes that lie. Mine too.
Jeremy: Well.
Bob: don’t you think Dave that we all have an innate ability to know the truth? In our hearts.
Dave: So, yeah, because that’s where we’re God is sitting in a part of us, that knows the truth and we can feel it.
Bob: You.
Dave: We can feel the truth. We can feel when something is not right. Okay. When You’re standing at the edge of the cliff. And you’re looking back over your shoulder and you see the earth back there, you know? That’s the truth. And when you step off and…
Jeremy: Yeah.
Dave: you’re following, you know, that’s not right.
Jeremy: That’s right.
Dave: And that is the truth and…
Bob: But that’s what God is God’s in our heart.
Dave: the life right there, okay.
Bob: So we know. So yeah, when God’s in our heart, we know we’re the truth is we can feel it. We sense it because that’s what got it.
Dave: Well see that works for everybody. Not just those who are Christians because people even if they haven’t accepted Christ, can feel God’s influence. Just like they can feel Satan’s influence.
Bob: Mmm. Good point.
Dave: When you were, when you were four years old and your mom said No more cookies and you still went into the cookie jar, you knew it was wrong, you could feel it. And when my mom found out about it,…
Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah.
Bob: You. It is on my bottom.
Dave: you could feel it again.
Dave: so, He? yeah, so you knew even when you were a baby,…
Jeremy: Would you?
Dave: you knew
Jeremy: Yeah. And the Bible says, John John.
Dave: And that that’s that’s the difference. I mean that’s that’s how we will.
Jeremy: Yes, that Scripture.
Dave: Go ahead.
Jeremy: John John 8:32. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. It doesn’t say,…
Bob: Mm-hmm.
Jeremy: you might know the truth, you could possibly know the truth. It says You will know the truth and the truth will set you free. I think everybody deep down knows the truth some people live their life rejecting the truth, some people live their life pushing the truth away from them but deep down it’s like when somebody says Well I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that there’s a God.
Jeremy: Well, they have to believe something if they’re if they you know. Hate. If they’re saying,…
Bob: Oh, I love both.
Jeremy: I don’t believe that there’s a God. Well, they well,…
Dave: I,
Jeremy: they well they believe that there isn’t a God. They believe something.
Dave: Know, I love those people, I love those people. You know why?
Bob: Why?
Dave: I’ll tell you. I love people say. I don’t believe there’s a God. Well how can you not believe something that you just acknowledged exists?
Jeremy: Exactly. I love it.
Dave: You may not, you may not agree with him, you may not want to accept him but you know he is because you just said he is. So now I love those people.
Jeremy: That’s right.
Dave: Oh yeah. Those are great people.
Bob: Pretty hard to deny something that has been created in the called, the universe wasn’t. It was created by something. Somebody, So you can call him anything you want. But there is a higher power. Yeah.
Jeremy: You know, the other night I was sitting in the pool, I was down in Mexico and…
Dave: Yeah.
Jeremy: I was sitting in the pool and I was watching the sunset. And as I was watching the sunset, I looked off at the other direction and I could see the moon and the moon was growing.
Bob: Mmm.
Jeremy: The moon was getting big, you know, because we just had a full moon the other night. And as always sitting there and I’m overlooking the ocean and I’m looking at the mountains and I’m looking at the sun setting and how everything just works perfectly. how could you possibly sit there and say, This all just happened because of a big bang?
Bob: He?
Jeremy: You can see the artist touch in, absolutely everything in this world especially within creation and it’s just so incredible. How it all just works. And How can you, How can you look at the moon? How can you look at the stars? How can you look at the sun setting and the sun rising? And not believe. That there’s a beautiful creator up above.
Bob: I’d say that’s impossible.
Dave: Yeah. Well, they’re probably one’s a big bang. They’re probably was a big bang but who put whatever it was out there that made the bang?
Bob: Exactly. Yeah,…
Jeremy: Yeah.
Dave: You, you can’t create something from anything.
Bob: who was the spark? Yeah. Nope it hasn’t been done yet.
Dave: Yeah, you can’t create something from nothing but so something had to be there first before that big bang. So who put that there?
Jeremy: ah, that’s right.
Dave: If you if you I mean if you have absolutely nothing, you can’t create something from nothing. You can create more things from something that you can’t create anything from nothing.
Bob: That’s pretty tough. They say the universe is 12. Trillion as a 12 the light year trillion, light years across and it’s expanding. So my question is, what’s expanding into
Jeremy: Wow.
Bob: Something to ponder.
Jeremy: one one day, we will find out Bob
Bob: Yes, we one day we will find out if for sure.
Bob: Hopefully later, rather than sooner.
Jeremy: Hey, yes. but,
Dave: Yeah, someday. But well. What?
Bob: Give me some more time to get it, right?
Dave: What? Well, think about this. They said that our universe is expanding. Okay.
Bob: That’s a great question.
Dave: How big is heaven?
Jeremy: Wow.
Dave: So, if we’re expanding, Okay. Maybe someday,…
Bob: Could be.
Dave: we’ll reach the edge of heaven.
Bob: Yeah, just a thought. Something to ponder.
Dave: Yeah, just the thought. That doesn’t mean we get to that. Don’t mean that we are that we’re gonna get to go into it. But we might reach there then it’s kind of like standing on the top run of the ladder. You know you stand up on the top run of the ladder and you still won’t aren’t going to be able to reach up into heaven.
Jeremy: Yeah. That’s true.
Hey, I’m Dave – join me next time when I talk about Sin. And until then, I’ll see you at the Rest Area.
